Photon Setup Failed at "Verify Product Ownership"

[Moors7]

Hey Jim,

You do have some valid points, so don't get the impression I'm disregarding what you say

@jim_hahn

I misused the word 'blog' and should have said 'forum'. There are 113 entries in this forum topic and in one of them (or maybe two) somebody mentioned that they had success when they a) rebooted their router and b) moved the Photon and iPhone nearer to their router. That's what I did and it worked. I don't know which thing (a or b) was causal to success.

Thanks for clarifying that, that might help other in the future. I find WiFi to be a bit of a strange beast. One day it works, the next day it doesn't, for no apparent reason. Much like any electronics it seems "have you tried turning it off and on again?" is a valid debugging step. Decreasing range might help too, depending on which distance you're at, if there are any obstructions in the way, and if all planets are aligned properly (don't ask me why, it's the wifi...). If you want to increase the range, a u.FL antenna might offer a solution?

@jim_hahn

you want to control them with a simple micro.

That might be a cause of confusion, since I personally don't see the Photon as being a 'simple micro' anymore. True, it's no supercomputer, but it's (way) more involved than your average Arduino. It's an entirely different platform, it's much more powerful, it runs freeRTOS, and has the whole connectivity thing going on. That's not to say the Arduino is bad (they're great), but there is a noteworthy difference in capabilities that should be accounted for.

@jim_hahn

there's no real need to do more than what comes in the Arduino box.

And that's perfectly okay. The Photon is (amongst others) also for those that want to expand on what the average Arduino can do. Like a said, the Arduino is great, but it has its limits.

@jim_hahn

I don't think people view the Arduino as a learning vehicle to end up being a Unix guru or someone that can write Makefiles or what I would call "under the covers" tasks.

Nor should they. I don't even think I know what Unix is (I'm pretty sure I don't...) nor can I write a Makefile (I don't even know what goes on in one ), and I don't have to. Most, if not all, of the resources are described in one way or the other, and that suffices for the biggest part. Depending on what it is you're trying to do, you might not even need them. If it doesn't work the way I'd like it to, there's always Google, and better yet, this forum with some truly supportive people willing to help

@jim_hahn

All this person wants to do is get his little hardware idea working.

That's where the Web IDE is 'perfect', or even Particle Dev. It's supposed to be plug&play, or code&flash. No in-depth knowledge is required to use that to flash your devices. Great to get a little hardware project working.
Particle Dev is better suited for those that prefer a bit more elaborate IDE with perhaps some file handling, and better library use. Whatever floats your boat.

@jim_hahn

He may well not know C. But Arduino's documentation does a reasonable job of leading him down the path of writing simple programs. Buy a K&R and he thinks he's an expert.

You can actually use the same language for the Particle products (Wiring, or C if you like. For the true enthusiasts, you can even go assembler if I'm not mistaken). That also means that the Arduino resources, the docs, and quite a lot of books, are applicable to the Particle universe as well. Of course there are differences due to the underlying hardware and connectivity stuff, but it's still helpful.

@jim_hahn

He can push the Arduino to the limits of its capabilities.

That's the thing, the capabilities are relatively limited. The Arduinos are great at what they do, but there's only so much they can do. That's where the Particles kick in and expand on these capabilities. And you know what they say, "with great power, comes... a greater requirement of knowledge on how to handle that power", or something along those lines It's like going from a bicycle to a motorbike. Sure, they've got two wheels, a steering handle, and can get you from A to B, but how to use them, and they way they do things is inherently different.
Much like you need braking fluid, gasoline and a drivers license for a motorbike, you may need to have some additional requirements to use a Particle device. Although they appear to do the same thing at first glance, there are some differences that you can't and shouldn't neglect. Although you may need to kickstart the motorbike every once in a while, there's so much more potential in it than your regular, no-nonsense, bicycle.

@jim_hahn

If he gets it going, great! I am not there yet and I will be delighted to eat my words if it really is the promised land.

That's what we're here for, to guide you to the holy land (great time of the year ;))

@jim_hahn

But with 113 entries on this one problem (Fail at "Verify Product Ownership") and several other posts on not being able to install the CLI, I think the novice hobby person will give up. And in fact if you read the 113 entries, you see that some knowledgeable users said they were about to give up.

The forum software that's used is called 'Discourse' and that's pretty much what the 113 entries are about: having a discourse. Although the number might be daunting at first, it's actually a lot of back and forward between a lot of different people. Things then tend to grow easily.
The CLI is difficult in a lot of ways. Most notably because of the fact that a lot of users are running it on a lot of different systems. Three major OSs, and countless of variations of versions of said OSs, not to mention different versions of software people have installed. If you've ever dealt with probability in maths, that's a lot of variables to account for. That means that there a also a lot of potential points of error. For that reason, some guides have been made for the most basic cases. For everything else, there's the forums, or even Google, depending on what you encounter. We've helped quite a lot of people already, and even though some have been at the verge of giving up, we've almost always been able to figure it out. If you're willing to give it a go, I'm confident that we should be able to get you going.

@jim_hahn

So far I am only trying to get to first base. Hours and hours of work to get there (and CLI still does not install) is not the mark of a product for the novice hobby person.

Agreed. The CLI install is a bit of a pain, and if I'm not mistaken, folks at HQ are looking into way to make an installer. There's a version available for Windows user, thanks to a great contribution from the community. IF you're running windows, that should work (it did for me on several occasions, running different versions).

@jim_hahn

This is undoubtedly a fantastic product for a wide set of users. But they are already highly knowledgeable.

I started from the bottom ("now I'm here" ) and I still don't consider myself to be "highly knowledgeable". I started out with the Spark Core, and 'worked my way up'. Started with simple projects, and expanded on that. You have to learn to walk before you can run I've never even used an Arduino before, and am now highly hesitant because I don't want to miss my Particle features.

@jim_hahn

I agree. But if the car's driveshaft or brake fluid has a problem, I can take it to a garage or the dealer. And MOST of the time it works perfectly when I drive it off the lot. I don't have to get underneath the hood. Photon appears to need a mechanic. (I know: You're gonna get mad at that statement.)

Fair enough, although I don't think 'under the hood' knowledge is required until your skills are advanced enough that you're willing to tackle a more complicated project. I've got a local toolchain installed, but hardly ever use it since I've got no need to. My projects aren't advanced enough to require that. If they are that advanced, I'd need the knowledge anyhow or I wouldn't be able to build it in the first place. You can't fix a broken car without proper tools. And if you don't know how to use the tools you've got, then perhaps the project is a bit too complicated in the first place? It's then better to learn how to use a car bridge before trying to fumble on the car. That's not to say you need to know how that bridge works, you just need to know how to operate it.
The same is true for many of the build tools. You don't have to understand their inner working to be able to use them. I haven't got the slightest clue how half of them work, but I get by.
Also, I'm not gonna get mad at anything. This is an honest argument, no reason to get mad

@jim_hahn

I hope to get my application ported to Photon and I certainly hope the "one key" IDE works well. We (my team of retired EE's) started with Arduino and moved away from it for speed reasons. We now use Microchip's starter kit board and that has been a true can of worms and expensive. We hope (pray) the Photon is easy to use, inexpensive, and is a neat fit to our application.

What are you building ? Also, let us know if we can help.

@jim_hahn

You pointed me to a site regarding where to get the 'make' command. I did get it downloaded from Apple, so thank you. Although 'make' is now here, the next battle regards:

What exactly are you trying to do? Going from your first post, you've seemed to get the Photon connected to the Cloud, correct? If so, what are you trying now? I'm assuming you're trying to install the CLI? The link in my last post should contain some info on how to do that. ave you got a screenshot of the terminal output (error) when you're trying to run the install command, that might help?

@jim_hahn

Thanks again. If you happen to live in the Phoenix area, I'll buy the beer and we can talk face to face.

Happy to help I'm not even legally allowed to drink in the States (which is funny, because I've been allowed that for around 4 years already, being 20). Also, I live halfway across the globe in the cold, wet Netherlands... I do appreciate the offer though

-@Moors7